The Authority Podcast — Expert Insights and Fresh Ideas for Education Leaders

Ross Romano: [00:00:00] Welcome in everybody. You are listening to the Authority Podcast here on the Be Podcast Network. Thanks as always for being with us. Here's a conversation that we're going to get to talk extensively and explicitly about a topic of a lot of importance, something that comes up in a lot of our conversations here, and it's all around communication, storytelling, the various ways.

That communication skills are so foundational to leadership, to the way that we're able to have success and make an impact in our organizations. And we have a great guest to talk about that. My guest is Michael Davis. Michael works with business owners, entrepreneurs, and business leaders who [00:01:00] struggle to give effective presentations.

He helps them increase their confidence, influence, and impact. with more impactful presentations every time they stand up and speak. Michael's expertise in communication is rooted in the belief that all business problems stem from communication issues and if your organization aims to improve leadership, team collaboration, overall effectiveness, which I know everybody else everybody out there does this is an approach that can deliver those results.

So we'll get into that. Michael's the founder of Speaking CPR. And the author of seven books on communication, including the book on storytelling. And that's what we're talking about today. Michael, welcome to the show.

Michael Davis: Thank you, Ross. Appreciate the opportunity to talk with you and your audience and always love to talk about improved communication skills. Storytelling

Ross Romano: Yeah, it's a topic that's near to my heart and it's really critically important. And but it's something that almost all of us can get better at. And so it's always worth more discussion, more thought about [00:02:00] how it truly impacts outcomes, right? And how it can open up opportunities to achieve things that otherwise aren't when we are able to really engage stakeholders, tell the story that we want to tell.

So I kind of want to start just at a high level. What's the big idea of the book?

Michael Davis: Is the most important communication skill we have. That sums it up right there. And it was born out of a series of 52 storytelling insights that I have created years ago. It's evergreen. And the idea of the book was just to put these together in a cohesive form, but that's ultimately it. We are storytelling creatures, not the first person to say that.

Some social scientists and anthropologists contend that we have been telling stories before we had written language. Even before we had verbal language, we were grunting and making noises and [00:03:00] conveying messages and lessons that through storytelling?

Ross Romano: What is storytelling? I think it's important to, to define it for listeners who maybe haven't used that phrase before, or haven't you know, heard much of an explanation of exactly what we're talking about in this sense in professional organizations, storytelling as a form of communication.

How do you define it?

Michael Davis: Question because a lot of people have a knee jerk reaction. They picture little kids sitting around. I know a lot of educators listen to your podcast little kids sitting around listening to someone read a story. That is ingrained in us, and it's why we are attracted to story, but that's not what we're talking about in business and leadership.

It is a narrative about a person or group of people who encounter a problem. As they're pursuing a goal and they cannot solve the problem and they try and they try and they hit a low point where ultimately they need someone to come in and give them new advice, new perspective, new wisdom.

They apply that new wisdom. Doesn't [00:04:00] happen overnight, but they start to increase they start to overcome the problem and ultimately solve it, accomplish the goal, and they live a new and better life. Every book you've read, every movie you've watched, every TV show, every TikTok video that you were drawn to followed that same framework.

And it's not just for entertainment purposes. It is to gain people's trust and let them know and demonstrate that you can help solve their problems.

Ross Romano: yeah, I would think of one way of describing a detail of it as it connects me to you, right? It creates relevance for your audience. around whatever it is you're doing as an organization, whatever the information is that you want them to have, it's really putting them at the center of it and telling it in a way that puts them makes it relevant.

And so it's not fictional you know, a lot of that's, I mean, that's a different thing. That's [00:05:00] storytelling in another way. It's not inventing something, making it up. It's but I think that that piece of the perspective taking the really understanding and divine defining the main character in that story, right?

The the person to whom it's being told is an important part of it. And that carries across any type of storytelling in business or otherwise is to say the story is only as good as. It is in the eyes of the listener or the the reader. And so if it's not something that has any relevance to them, the details don't matter.

You know, you can kind of. argue with that, add to that tell me what you think about it, but certainly in terms of communicators and maybe those who aren't professional communicators in the sense that that's not their role or title or training, but who are in leadership roles, who are responsible for guiding organizations that a lot of [00:06:00] times the natural inclination is to think first about what we want to say.

Right. What is our program? What is our product? What are the details of it? Or what are the things we're doing here? And I always advocate, like, start with who you're talking to. Talking to think about the things they want to know, the questions they have, their pain points, their challenges, and then line up what you have to say with those things, and then you have the makings of a story that can resonate.

Michael Davis: Absolutely. When you start with a relatable character, a main character, who has a problem similar to that of the listener, that's the starting point. Really, the starting point is to ask yourself, what problem do I solve? How do I solve it? What is my solution? Now build a story around that. That simple framework.

Problem solution. Tell the story of someone who had that similar problem, couldn't solve it on their own, [00:07:00] and now you have a solution. Where some storytellers get lost in the weeds as they start to describe the solution. It's not what the listener wants early on. What they want to do is they want to experience the same positive feelings that the main character experiences through the narrative.

They encounter the problem, they're frustrated, frustrated, angry, mad, whatever they're feeling, it's negative, to a low point, they get the solution, they start to implement it, that changes their internal their emotions, till they get to the point where, oh, I succeeded, solved the problem, accomplished the goal, I feel better, here's my new and better life, and here's the wisdom I gained from it. So you're right on is that we have to appeal to the listener's emotions. And sometimes in, we're going to use the word business here, but I understand education. Look, you're a business too in education. People have often made the mistaken communication of saying, we got to separate the emotion from the message.

Well, that's [00:08:00] ridiculous because the people listening to you are emotional creatures. Now modern society seems to, at times, want to try to drive that emotion out of us and just go left brain thinking, left brain facts, figures. It's not how we're wired. If we want to connect, we have to help people understand, hey, we get you.

We understand the problems and challenges you're facing and a story does that better than any other type of communication.

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Ross Romano: Yeah. And I think going about it that way, another thing that it helps with it, it relates to there when I've done media training in the past, right. One of the tips that I always give is. Say what you want to say and then stop, right? If you find yourself saying Coincidentally, or oh, by the way, like that's a sign that you're going off topic and you're adding a bunch of other stuff in there.

And so in that case, if you're speaking to a reporter, right, you're increasing the chance that the thing you get quoted on is not the thing you actually wanted to get across. [00:09:00] And same thing here. If you start with thinking about, okay, what are all the things we want to say instead of what are the things this person.

Wants to know or that would influence them or be, you might tell them about 10 things and there's only one or two that matter to that. So your main point is obscured amidst all that other stuff, they lose interest because they're like, okay, I don't know what all this is about, and. You know, ultimately the likelihood of that person taking away the message that influences them, or that has them feeling like, okay, I have a better awareness or understanding of what this is about is much lower because it's buried under all this stuff that you thought was important to you.

But that's not the point, right? The point is not so that we can just talk about what we want to talk. The point is that we're trying in some way, whatever that is. to move that listener toward the next step in their process whether there's an explicit [00:10:00] call to action or just awareness building or building emotional connections, right?

All of those things.

Michael Davis: Yeah, and it's a big problem. I think most people go into their communication not knowing why they're having this communication. It's a checklist item. I got to talk to my team leaders and get them in here. Let's just tell them what I want them to do and then be on with my next task. That's not communication.

Understand why you're going in. What's the outcome you want, not just from your standpoint, but from the other person or people. You're going to have a much more effective communication and you're going to save yourself time in the long run because the way I see most leaders today is they bark out orders, they throw it out, they don't get an acknowledgement that people understand the point that was trying to be made, which leads to miscommunication, which is costly from a time, energy and money standpoint.

If we could just gain clarity up front, We'd save so much frustration down the road.[00:11:00]

Ross Romano: Yeah. Yeah. And that, that brings up an interesting additional point about when communication starts, when it ends, if it ends, right? What is the life cycle of that communication that as somebody who aims to be an effective communicator your job or responsibility doesn't end when you've said what you're going to say right?

That there is part of the accountability for that is Making sure that it was understood. And if you're, if it's internally, you're talking to your staff, your colleagues, did they get what I was saying? Do they agree with the parameters? Do they have an adjustment? Like, what are they communicating back to me?

Are we finding a way to, if I want to achieve a certain outcome and I'm saying, this is the goal here. But the person who I say it to, okay, I understand what [00:12:00] they said, but in my head, I know that. We need to focus on this and this to make that thing happen, right? But I don't have an opportunity to share that.

That wasn't really a super effective communication. And so what is that cycle to you? And we can focus this one more on those internal organizational pieces where a leader, okay, a leader has committed to communication and transparency, right? And saying that, but What are the next steps?

After I've communicated my part of it, what do I need to focus on next to make sure that it was successful and moves us forward?

Michael Davis: I'll offer you a quote and a bigger, broader view of the situation you just laid out. The quote is this, one of the most important lessons I learned early in my professional speaking career. My coach is a highly respected, legendary speaker in the professional speaking world. She's this five foot tall little British woman and she says, Michael, it's not what you say, [00:13:00] it's what they hear.

It's not what they hear. Oh, that keeps my ego in check. Just because I'm supposedly the expert and walk in doesn't mean that because I said it, they're going to absorb it the way I want them to. And this is where communication comes in. Our communication does not start when we walk into the room or when we turn on the camera.

It starts in every communication that leads up to that meeting. Email, text, video, whatever we're doing. We've got to look at the tone. What are we telling them? What are their expectations walking in? And starting a meeting with, okay, here are the expectations. Here's our agenda and making sure everybody's on the same page is a great way to start a meeting because it makes sure that they get why they're there. And then at the end, it's a really good idea to open the floor up and say, now, what was it? What are your expectations of what? I've just asked you to do, or what we as a team have agreed to [00:14:00] do, and go around the room and make sure everybody's on the same page. Now it has to be a safe environment, because people will not raise their hands, they will not volunteer to say, what they're thinking if they feel like they will be embarrassed or humiliated.

So we have to have a culture that says, look, I need to know it's called falling on your sword. I need to know if what I just said was clear, because sometimes maybe I'm not clear. I want to make sure that you understood it the way I intended. So we don't point the finger at them because I've seen leaders do this.

And essentially what they're saying is, well, I just want to make sure you're not stupid and didn't you heard it the wrong way. Not a good approach. Take it on yourself to say, look, sometimes I may not be clear. Let's make sure we're on the same page so we don't waste anybody's time and we get the results we expect.

Ross Romano: Yeah. Is there anything else? So we reference sort of the fictional storytelling or storytime. Is, but is there [00:15:00] anything else that storytelling specifically is not, right? Something that might be a misapplication or a misapprehension of somebody believes that they're engaging in storytelling, but there are certain things that are like, well, that's not exactly what we're talking about here.

Michael Davis: It's an excellent question, Ross. And a lot of people give a lot of facts and figures and they go into a lot of details about an experience they had. And that is not good storytelling. The audience does not want to know every detail of your experience. What they want to know is. in the story, what was the situation with a relatable character? Get to the problem as soon as possible. What was the situation this person faced? Why couldn't they overcome it on their own? Because when you go into that part of the narrative, you're telling the listener, in essence, I get you. Because I've experienced this either myself or with someone else on our team.

And by taking them through that journey of the low point and getting the solution and figuring it out [00:16:00] and solving the problem and having success, you're letting them know, I understand you. I have a solution to your problem and I can tailor it specifically to you without saying those words. That's the power or the potential power that the story has.

It's not a bunch of facts and figures. It's not always about feeling good. That's a big challenge. I see a lot of leaders, especially they're afraid to talk about problems or challenges they've had because they believe, falsely believe, that their team is going to see them as weak. That's not true.

You do that and you show them that you're human, you're just like them, and that you, have walked this road before, you have the solution that can help them too.

Ross Romano: those are great points. And yeah, and I think a lot of people, if they're engaging in this idea, they may think of it as communication that's more creative in a sense. And I think that can be the case, right? One example that I'm [00:17:00] sure everybody has examples of this in their mind, where you might be able to identify, okay, which of these would be effective storytelling, would be things like television commercials that we've seen.

I think all of us probably have certain commercials that we've seen that were really interesting and creative, but I asked you, if I asked you what was the most the product. Oh, I don't remember, right? That probably wasn't effective storytelling, right? You enjoyed watching it, but you don't remember what it was about.

There might be others that very clearly it's about something, and you can say, oh yeah, that was for this, but it didn't necessarily interest you in that. Well, that might not be effective either. And then there's another one where it's like, okay, that was engaging. I liked it. I enjoyed it. And I'm now really interested in what it was advertising.

All right, that's what that's kind of where you want to be. So it can be. a super creative form of storytelling or using, right, personal stories and anecdotes and those kind of things things that [00:18:00] some politicians are really good at, right? If it makes you understand the point that they're making and moves you more toward supporting that point, then that was an effective way.

There's other times where it's like, Okay, I don't, I lost the thread. That was, I was into that for a while, but now I totally have no idea what it's about.

Michael Davis: And well, the most successful politicians, and I'm not talking recently, this is through history and now, tell narratives. And you mentioned this before, they, there are people who misuse narratives. to tell the story they want people to believe so that they'll get their vote, get their money. And that's where storytelling can be misused.

And it has been for since the dawn of human history, right? It's happened for centuries and millennia. You said something earlier and I forgot to put what we'll come back to it, I'm sure. But yeah, effective use of story. Gets people to buy into your ideas, [00:19:00] and I know this isn't a lot of your listeners are not salespeople, but are you or are you not? A lot of times people say, I'm not a salesperson because I'm not selling a product.

Yeah, but you're selling ideas all the time. If you're an education, you get the hardest sell in the world. You got to sell kids on giving you their full attention all day long, doing the work that they need so that they can progress through the education system and get those degrees and get out into the world and be productive citizens.

That's a hard sell, especially in this, society with all this technology that's constantly grabbing their attention. I know the point I wanted to make the false narrative that we often see comes through social media with people who get a million likes or they're influencers and we buy into this belief that you have to do that.

That's a story just because people will tell you. We see this all the time, Ross, on our You know, YouTube feeds and Instagram and all these [00:20:00] ads. Hey, you can make a million bucks in the next 45 days. that's false narrative. That's misleading and it's manipulative. What we're talking about is connecting with people on a human level to show them that they are understood, they are heard, and that this is how we build trust.

It's going to start at this grassroots level. People telling stories, but also listening to one another's stories. That's how we're going to begin to rebuild trust in this society, which is really lacking, right?

Ross Romano: Yeah, absolutely. And I want to get into some of those details before we kind of get into a handful of the ways that storytelling specifically helps leaders. I'm wondering at a at a higher level, what do leaders lose when they don't develop their storytelling skills when they Ignore it, don't think about it, or just say that's not my style.

It's not that's not what I do. In any case, when a leader doesn't have this skill set or doesn't use it effectively what's the opportunity [00:21:00] cost there?

Michael Davis: Opportunity cost is the bottom line, because they lose impact and influence when, I go to meetings and I see CEOs open up a presentation with a bunch of stats, facts, and figures, or PowerPoints, and I see everyone in the audience pulling out their phones, and they're not going to social media to make a post that says, This is a great speech!

They're losing impact and influence. Well, what's the domino effect of that? Well, they have a disengaged workforce. which their sales force is not motivated, so they're not outselling, probably have low retention. All that is a snowball effect, and it adds up to, I don't know what the numbers are, and it's hard to put numbers on lost opportunity cost, but you can take a hard look at what's lost retention costing us.

You can do a comparison of sales during different periods to say when we were using a certain communication style, [00:22:00] what worked, what didn't. So it's measurable, but it's massive.

Ross Romano: Yeah,

Michael Davis: it continues until you decide that I'm going to stop just trying to communicate with people and coercing them through facts, figures, and fear.

And so let's connect on a human level so that you want to be. You want to work with us. You want to be part of this school district. You want to be part of this team. I mean, the cost of lost retention is huge.

Ross Romano: right. Yeah, absolutely. Let's get into some of the specific ways that storytelling helps leaders. And these are all things that I pulled out that are specifically relevant to school leaders, leaders in education, all the challenges that go along with that, the current climate, the things that leaders are hoping to achieve.

A big one. is enhancing influence in general. It's part of the it's part of the promise we make in the description for this [00:23:00] podcast is that there's strategies on this show to help you increase your influence with the people. So let's talk about that. Why is storytelling an important part of

Michael Davis: Because it lays down a vision of what you want to be. Let's just say you're a school district, you're a superintendent. I would encourage you to sit down with all your school principals and ask them one question. Have them write this on a piece of paper. What is our mission and our vision? See what they write.

Compare them. Pretty good chance you're going to get a bunch of different answers. If you've got 20 people in the room, you're going to get 20 different answers. And that's not good. If they're not all even on the same page of where you're going as an organization, you're that's a problem, right? So we can start to tell stories that create the vision of what the future looks like for you.

Ross Romano: Fostering trust, something you referenced earlier. Big one for all leaders, right? How does storytelling support that?

Michael Davis: When you as a leader are willing to share your struggles, your [00:24:00] strife, and your setbacks. The word vulnerability is overused today, but I think it fits you. When you're willing to be relatable. By showing your scars. Where have I fallen down? Where have I made mistakes? And what did I learn from it? You've got to have that other part in there.

Here's what I learned, and here's how it will save you time, money, and emotion. Then you're giving them a great service, but you're also showing them, hey, I'm not trying to be better than you. I'm here to lead you. That fosters trust. Because this is somebody we can follow who's not trying to show us how great they are all the time.

They're a human being just like me.

Ross Romano: Yeah, yeah, I guess I would define trust level as the presence or absence of a set of beliefs that your team would have, right? Do they believe that? You have a well thought out process for the decisions you make. Do they believe that you're conscientious in [00:25:00] your work, and that there's some type of values based on that?

Compass guiding what you do. Do they believe that you are truly and authentically committed to the mission of the organization that you're in? Do they believe that you are there to serve them and that they are somebody you're somebody that they can come to but they need support or they need Guidance, right?

And there's many more to it, but it's like, these are all the things that we're trying to achieve, and it's clear how storytelling and communication can make that happen. Am I consistently referencing our mission, vision, and values? When we're talking about the initiatives we're embarking on, right? Are they clearly tied to the things that we stand for?

Am I being proactive in going to people and telling them about, here's what's upcoming? Here's what's coming? [00:26:00] Some decisions we're going to make, here's why we're making them, or am I keeping it to myself, either because I'm specifically just saying, well, they don't need to know about that or that I'm just not demonstrating that You deserve to know about this.

You're a part of this team. You're a stakeholder. This is important for you to know. It makes you better at your job because you understand the big picture. So now you're able to make better decisions at the things you're doing, right? And and am I am I making sure there are fewer gaps in the collective understanding where Everybody's individual perceptions or narratives can take root and say, Hmm, they must be hiding something from us over here because I haven't heard anything about it.

And clearly something's going on. Or when I asked about this, I was kind of brushed aside or and and those are all important, important parts of that trust building. It's definitely part of why I always say, like, be proactive, try to limit. [00:27:00] The number of things that you categorize as privileged information, right?

There's certain things that have very specific reasons why they are only discussed among a small group of people in the organization. And there's a lot of other things that there's no reason for that to be the case. And even if it's not a project that. Somebody else might be directly involved in understanding.

It's going to affect their work. It's going to affect their morale. It's going to affect their understanding and belief in what we're doing here. And it's better to discuss it than to say, well, it's and again, to the point of putting ourselves in the shoes of our audiences. Okay, what are the people who work here going to be wondering about or what are they going to want to know, or if they don't know about this and they find out about it later?

What questions or anxieties are they going to have when they feel like, wait a second, I don't really know what's [00:28:00] happening here.

Michael Davis: True, you said a lot of wise words there. One word that jumped out at me, you said demonstrate. When you have a company mission or vision, which is really a story, it's just a story of the future of where we want to go. They're watching to see if you as a leader demonstrating the values that support that mission and vision.

And you talked a lot while you were mentioning, are we hiding information or are we on a need to know basis? The thought transparency equals trust popped into my mind. The more transparent you are, the more you're going to have people's trust. They'll see that we're in this common vision. Are you demonstrating it?

Are you setting an example for us? Or are you saying one word, one thing and living a different way? People are watching us all the time, and we think we're smarter than our team. We think we're smarter than our kids, if you're listening to this and have parents. They're watching us all the time, and they call us on it.

Our work teams don't necessarily call us on it like our kids do. They just shut [00:29:00] down, they disengage, and they leave.

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Ross Romano: Yeah. And, it's, and trust of course is a two way street, right? It also means as the person in the leadership position, trusting that my team will Use that information effectively that the things that I tell them that withholding it out of fear of what happens if they do something I don't want them to do.

Right? I've been in positions before where I would have a discussion with You know, somebody on my team. I'm advocating for this and this. I'm advocating for you to get a promotion. I'm advocating for our company to invest in this kind of project, whatever the case may be, but I don't know what the decision is going to come out.

There's other stakeholders in it. I'm not really sure what's going to happen. I'm keeping you up to date on what I'm trying to do, but I can't tell you yet what the outcome's going to be. So one fear of that [00:30:00] would be if they kind of feel like, you know what, the things that I'm hoping happen aren't moving forward, maybe I should leave.

And well, I don't want that to happen but ultimately if that's going to happen, it's going to happen. It doesn't do me any good to have people on my team who don't trust me or trust what I'm doing. It doesn't do them any good. And ultimately there's a lot of things, but it could have the exact reverse to say, okay, now I understand.

I'm not seeing results on this yet. So if I didn't hear anything about it, I would just assume that it wasn't on anybody's radar. Now, at least I know that there are people looking into this and working on it, and I have to make a decision about, do I want to see how it turns out? Do I feel like it's unlikely?

Like, what's the track record historically, right? Well, in the past, when I know that we've worked on these kind of things, eventually they came to be. So that's good. I know that it's moving in the right direction. In the past, this stuff never works out, okay? I'm going to But that's Again, the [00:31:00] responsibility, accountability of leadership to say, what is our organization demonstrating?

When people come to work here, can they look at the people around them and see clear evidence that those people have been successful when they've been here, that they've been supported, that they've developed, that their growth has been invested in that they've received resources they need.

Or do they look around and say, well, Everybody here, it seems to constantly turn over or nobody really seems happy. Well, that's the evidence, right? So choosing to engage with that directly and discuss it and communicate or not to, is not changing the fact that your evidence is what it is. So it's a good opportunity for leaders to find out.

Where are there holes in what we're doing? Like where do we need to be doing a better job?

Michael Davis: it's also an opportunity to find out what stories are people telling each other. When I'm not in the room, that, that's really good to know. And you have to be [00:32:00] someone who has thick skin and is coachable and is willing to listen to that and change when necessary. Not all leaders can do that, but if you're willing to, your organization will thrive in the long run because it shows them also that you can change and meet the needs of your team while all focused on the same objective.

Ross Romano: Yeah. Trust influence. These are two there's a lot of things that we do professionally or as organizations where I advocate, like, focus on the process over results. Like, just focus on doing the things that you know you're supposed to do, making the right decisions. And then if you do those things, the results will speak for themselves.

But. With some of these, I might say, like, the results are the story, right? You're not influential unless you influence somebody. You haven't fostered trust unless people trust you. So you really do have to think about, [00:33:00] okay, who are the stakeholders in this? Who are, who is my team?

Who's my community? And are the things I'm doing working? And if not, I need to try a different tact. And it doesn't mean I should consider it. a failure because I may have gone about it in a way that I knew I thought it well and I thought work, right? But it does mean I'm okay. It's time to adjust. It's time to adapt time to get better.

How about staff development? This is another this is another area that storytelling can support developing staff helping them improve in their roles. How does storytelling support that?

Michael Davis: Well, tell the narratives of people who've come before them, what's worked, what are some procedures that have worked very well, all with the vision in mind, and what are some challenges they've had. And sometimes what seems like a simple solution to somebody on a staff level, maybe they don't understand the bigger picture of why we have some procedures in [00:34:00] place. When they understand the bigger picture, they might not be as likely to get upset about a procedure that on the surface makes no sense to them. Why are we doing this? Don't these people above know? Well, those are the kind of stories you don't want people telling each other because that just fosters disenchantment. So, helping them understand the big picture, the direction, the vision, the mission, and why sometimes we ask you to do things that may not make sense to you But you don't have the luxury of the big picture that we do. That can go a long way toward getting rid of a lot of dissension.

Ross Romano: Yeah, absolutely. Stakeholder engagement is another one that I wanted to discuss here and particularly keeping in mind our education leaders, right? Parents, community members. School boards in addition to the people who are working directly as part of our staff and faculty, really thinking about who are all of these stakeholder and [00:35:00] influencer groups that are relevant to the work we do here.

And how do we want to engage them, influence them, have them understand and hopefully buy into and play a role in the work we're doing here. You talk about storytelling in that context and how to approach it think about it and go about it.

Michael Davis: Well, it strikes me. My dad was in education as a teacher for a long time, Ross, and I don't envy all the different people you have to satisfy the taxpayers, the staff, the administrators, the teachers, the students, and probably most challenging are those parents. Let's face it, they have one and one interest more than any other, and that's my child.

Well, it's important that we get them to buy into the vision of the school as a whole. While balancing that with, well, what's best for my child? Well, we sell [00:36:00] the idea that this is the mission vision, this is where we're going, this is how we're going to help all of our students improve. And oh, by the way, this is how your child specifically, in line with that mission, is going to succeed in this school so they have the best possible chance.

Look, let's face it, a lot of times it's about getting them to the best colleges. But making sure there's alignment, always asking yourself that question, is what we're doing in alignment with where we are as a district, as an organization. This works, I've seen people in the business world who do this, Ross, they'll put their mission statement, and this is not just one of those they stick on the wall and everybody looks at and doesn't believe it.

They get buy in to the mission and vision, and once they have that, they put it on a card, and they all keep it in their wallets, purse, on their phone. And when a problem or a question comes up, they pull out that card and that statement and say, Does this support our mission and vision? It is a great problem.

So, and what's the story behind the mission and vision? [00:37:00] And if it doesn't support it, it pretty much solves the problem right there. But by getting buy in from all the stakeholders, that's the biggest challenge.

Ross Romano: Right. Yeah I certainly believe that for a conscientious leader, that communication to stakeholders is an obligation, but the thing is to view it as an opportunity, not an obligation, right? To focus on what are the things we'll be able to achieve if we get our stakeholders on board here that we otherwise wouldn't probably wouldn't.

And let's look at that aspirationally and really think about, okay, we're excited about what we're doing. We decided to do this because we think it's good. So if we help people understand that, they're going to think the same thing and they're going to want to get involved. They're going to want to play a part in that and we can achieve a lot more.

Certainly there's also a harm reduction piece of that where you take a lot of the bite out [00:38:00] of criticisms. If you've been forthright and transparent about what you're doing, somebody might be out there that says, I don't agree with this. I don't think this is the right move, but they can't say that you don't believe it, right?

They can't say you're hiding it. Clearly you must think that there's something wrong with this because you were trying to hide it. You weren't telling anybody about it, or now that I found out about it through some other means other than you telling me, now I. have my own story in my head about what I think this is all about, and now I confront you about it, and even if in response to that you give me a great response, right, now you're on the defensive because you missed the opportunity to set and control that narrative in a positive way.

Again, not in a You know, this negative connotation around PR manipulation type of thing, in a way to say, [00:39:00] look, again, going back to the mission vision of values. This is what we're doing. This is why we're doing it, because it is consistent with the values that we stand for here and the goals we want to achieve.

And this is what we decided is going to really help us to achieve them. And so we're committing to this. You're going to get a lot of people who say, Great, I wouldn't have known about that otherwise. And now that I know I'm excited about it, I want to get involved. You'll have some other people who say, I don't think that's a great move, but you can then have a discussion with them based on the merits and based on the being on the same page around the details.

And there's so many of those things. Like, I think there's a lot of things that as sometimes hard to comprehend as some of the conflicts are. I think a lot of the time it traces back to you have two parties who are arguing about something but they each have their own set of facts and details because the communication wasn't there in [00:40:00] the first place.

So,

Michael Davis: when people become entrenched and they don't listen.

Ross Romano: right, and now no matter what you say is not going to have the same weight. It's not going to engender the same trust or seem as authentic because the opportunity to do that was upfront. And and so there's, I think there are a lot of the, a lot of headaches that, that could be eliminated by doing this better.

And that's not That's another outcome, right? Again, I think the goal is to think about it as what, how does this raise the ceiling of what we can achieve here? Because it increases the number of people we can have involved, the amount of understanding they have of what it is, so that the contributions they're making are consistent with that goal and the enthusiasm and all of those things, if we can, if we do this right but also we can You know, limit who's actively working against it, [00:41:00] because, at the very least, there's a common understanding of, we're doing this because.

We have belief in it and

Michael Davis: that's true, Russ, and here's what it also does. When you're clear up front, and by the way, a vision, a mission, a clear story should not be convoluted. You know, we don't stand for 17 different ideas here. It's one, two, or three central ideas. This is the outcome we want. You're going to reduce the you're going to increase retention, I should say, but you're going to lose some people who don't buy into it.

You don't want them anyway. Here's what's going to happen going forward. You're not going to hire those people in the first place. We live in a time right now in the business world where people are hiring, organizations are hiring people they shouldn't be hiring just because they need bodies. That's not good.

You're better off not having those people because they're doing more harm by spreading bad narratives around the organization. When you've got that clarity [00:42:00] up front, that helps you going forward to pick the right people. And you can tell, this is our story. This is what we're about. If you're not a good fit, that's okay.

It's nothing personal. We just didn't work out. It's like dating, right? Sometimes you meet somebody really nice, but for some reason, you're just not on the same page. Don't force the issue. There are a lot of other people out there.

Ross Romano: yeah. Yeah. Excellent. So a couple other points as we're we're having a conversation here and one of them is definitely hasn't come up yet in our conversation and it's not something that might immediately occur to people, but storytelling can actually help leaders save time, right?

And that is you know, a paramount concern to everybody out there who knows that time is limited and we want to avoid spending additional or too much time on things that we could have addressed sooner. How does that happen?

Michael Davis: It happens in several ways. Number one, when leaders tell stories about their own challenges. That can [00:43:00] save months or years of trying to prove that they're the leader that the organization needs and that people need to buy into. By humanizing yourself, you shorten that time that people will buy into you. Now, does that mean you're always telling, every time you stand up and talk, telling about something really struggling you had? No. But it lets people know up front, hey, this is a human being. who is vulnerable, who is relatable to me, and that tears down the walls of distrust so they buy into it faster. So that when you do present them an idea that maybe they don't agree with, but they see it buys into the vision, and it's somebody who is an imperfect person who's relatable, who gets me.

And so there are several questions that people ask themselves when we interact with them. And a couple of them are, who are you? What are you about? Second, do you understand me? Do you understand my problems? And can you help me solve them? Well, a story very quickly can demonstrate [00:44:00] that. And all we're trying to do is just tear down the wall of distrust a little bit more and a little bit more.

Because we live in a society which is constantly feeding the distrust monster. We go, we get on social media, we listen to the news, and if you watch the news, you're going to be pretty depressed by the end of the day, because there's always a lot of negative going on, especially these days. This is what leaders have to deal with all the time.

How do I earn their trust? Well, I'm consistent, I tell a consistent story, I demonstrate that story, and I'm transparent. Stories do that very quickly for us.

Ross Romano: Are there one or a couple of reflection questions? that you may recommend our listeners to ask themselves as they are maybe considering the state of their current storytelling within their organizations or how they might want to step into approaching it with a little more intentionality.

Some things they should ask themselves to, to really be honest [00:45:00] and transparent and probing with oneself to say, maybe they've been listening along to this and thinking this all sounds great and they're there's not necessarily a ton of friction in the message about how this can help you achieve good things and what it's all about, but.

It's necessary to think, okay, am I really doing this? Have I really gone about it intentionally? And if I want to, what does that mean? And what does it mean to really commit to it?

Michael Davis: Well, being honest with yourself is the first. Being willing to ask and answer. Ask the tough questions, but more importantly, being willing to listen to the tough answers from yourself. But we're all blinded to ourselves, right? Being willing to go to our teams and ask them for honest feedback and making a safe space so they're not just saying it to, we don't want them feeling like, yes, men or yes, women, right?

We want them to see really what's going on. Do you understand our vision? What is our vision in your mind? Am I demonstrating [00:46:00] that? If not, how so, and how can I improve? You get buy in from people so fast because it's so rare today. I mean, think about every so often, Ross, we'll see in the news a story of a company who makes a major mistake and they come out and say, we screwed up. Doesn't happen often. In fact, the opposite of that is the Boeing company. Once the standard of airlines in airline manufacturers in the world, as far as I'm concerned, they're a disaster. They keep covering up. These mistakes they've made, people have died because of their mistakes. They're still making mistakes.

It was a recall we're recording this in October of 2024. A couple of weeks ago, there was a serious warning that came out about some of their planes. They're still covering it up. The story that they've told us is a lie. At least it is the way they've demonstrated from leadership standpoint.

Don't let yourself be a Boeing. Be candid with people. When there's a problem, don't hide from it. Tell the story of, Hey, here's how we messed up. [00:47:00] And here's how we're making a working to correct that problem.

Ross Romano: Right. Yeah. I mean, a good rule of thumb and certainly one that goes back to you can engender a lot of trust and benefit of the doubt. When you out and tell that story first and don't hope it goes away, hide behind it wait until you're asked about it. Because at this point a company, as you remember that it's now, when is anybody going to trust them again?

Because it's already happened too many times where, okay. Now you're clearly on the defensive and you probably never would have said anything if it didn't become a big story. Versus I can certainly think of examples, right, of companies who came out and addressed the mistake before. Anybody even knew it was or issued a voluntary recall or something like that before there was any problem.

Is it [00:48:00] preemptively just in case there might be a problem with this part or whatever, we're going to come out and recall it. And it doesn't. Typically make you think, Oh man, they must have some faulty manufacturing over there, right? It makes you think, Oh, well, that's okay. Good. Now we can address that and fix it.

And I can trade in my appliance for a new one before I have a problem.

Michael Davis: And Ross, you said something really important in that. Tell your story first, because here's what is going to happen. People are going to tell themselves a story about your organization. Which story do you want them telling themselves? The one where you lead the narrative or where they create a narrative based on the holes that you haven't filled in, that the media is always ready to fill in for you, and is that the narrative you want them telling themselves?

Ross Romano: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's kind of true across the board, right? For our football fans listening, [00:49:00] penalties, the second guy always gets caught one guy shoves the other one. It's the second guy who shows them back that gets called for the penalty. It's always if you are, if you're in the position where you're responding to what's out there you're always in a worse position than if you establish If you establish the the facts and the story and put it out there and then and then let that be the guide for the dialogue.

Michael, it's been awesome to have you on. These are topics we could talk about all day. You know, for our listeners out there who want to learn more we'll put the links to the website speakingcpr. com where you, they can learn about you, they can learn about the book. Anything else you'd like people to check out?

Michael Davis: I've got a resource that I've actually upgraded or new and improved. It's 52 Storytelling Insights. Just go to 52storyinsights. com. You'll get a weekly five minute audio lesson with a transcript. No cost, no obligation, but it gives you a deeper insight into storytelling.

Ross Romano: [00:50:00] Excellent. Awesome. Well, listeners, you can check that out. We'll put the links below to make it easy for you. So if you want the free resources to kind of learn more about this, if you want to find the book or any other kinds of support for your storytelling endeavors, you can check all of that out.

Please also do subscribe to the authority for more author interviews coming your way every week, or visit bpodcast. network to learn about all of our shows. And Michael, thanks again.

Michael Davis: Thanks, Ross. Enjoyed it.